#418 Braver Angels: Red and Blue Voters Together on Election Day

These final days before the election are tense times. Today’s toxic politics are hurtful and heart breaking for many of usMaybe we all need a hope vaccine. An injection of kindness, curiosity and understanding for those who see the world differently than we do.

In our latest report on the work, ideas, and people of Braver Angels, the nationwide citizen-led campaign against political polarization, we learn more about its Election Day Initiative: A volunteer-led effort to push back against political climate change— the hurricane of hate resentment and disdain that many on the left and right feel for the other side.

Our guests in this episode are liberal Dorsey Cartwright and conservative Roger Haynes. They are two of many red/blue pairs of citizens who will sit and stand together outside polling places across America.

M. Dorsey Cartwright is a retired marriage and family therapist in Austin, Texas. She travelled internationally leading workshops for couples, individuals, adult children and parents, as well as for communities. Valuing the healing of relationships, Dorsey has turned her attention to America’s political environment. First as an active member of No Labels and its mission to depolarize the House and Senate, and then Braver Angels, with its mission to depolarize our citizenship. Her politics lean blue.

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#417 Braver Angels Trustworthy Elections Report: Larry Mayes and Walt McKee

Elections are vital to all democracies: The authority of the government comes solely from the consent of the governed. But millions of Americans don’t trust the electoral process and have highly negative views of politics.. Many have little or no confidence that all votes will be fairly and accurately counted.

What should be done to improve our elections? We discuss reforms that both conservative reds and liberals blues can endorse. Some may surprise you, including ending gerrymandering and the unanimous recommendation on requiring ID to vote.

The Braver Angels Trustworthy Elections Initiative held 26 workshops with nearly 200 evenly-balanced Red and Blue participants. Together, they found 727 unanimous points of agreement.

Our guests are Larry Mayes and Walt McKee— the Blue and Red Co-Chairs of the Trustworthy Elections Leadership Team. They discuss their recommendations and what they learned together during the past four years.

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#416 How Braver Angels is Bridging Divides. David Blankenhorn (part 2)

Braver Angels is addressing a huge threat that could disrupt the future of our democratic republic: The rigid, often bitter, divisions between reds and blues. While nearly four in ten voters identify as "independent", more than nine in ten Americans fall into one of two broad categories. They identify as either conservative or liberal leaning and tend to vote for either Republicans or Democrats.

"If this country breaks apart, if violence increases to the point where we are killing each other, it will be because of those two groups and the extreme leaders of those two groups," says Braver Angels co-founder and President David Blankenhorn. "That's the division we are looking at. That's the bridge we want to build. That's what's threatening the country."

This episode is part two of our "How Do We Fix It?" podcast interview with David. We discuss Braver Angels bridge building by young people. Our conversation also explores America's political divisions and the Braver Angels approach to reforming and rebuilding American political discourse one conversation, one debate, one workshop at a time. In part one— our previous episode— we began by discussing the movement's origin story.

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#415 Braver Angels: Past Present & Future. David Blankenhorn (part 1)

“I don’t do this work in optimism. I do it in hope”, Braver Angels President David Blankenhorn tells us. “If we’re going to have any chance to fix this and save our country, this is what needs to be done.”

Soon after the tumultuous 2016 election Braver Angels sprung to life— co-founded by David, Bill Doherty and David Lapp. Two years after its founding this nationwide volunteer-led citizen movement had its first convention attended by 72 conservative and 72 liberal delegates. This year, more than 750 reds and blues were at the Braver Angels national convention in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

In the past few years Braver Angels workshops, debates, and other events have been held in all 50 states.

In this episode, we hear from David about the Braver Angels origin story and much more. We also feature a brief update from Jessie Mannisto, Braver Angels Director of Debates, about her experience as a Braver Angels volunteer outside the DNC Convention in Chicago.

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#414 Braver Angels Truth & Trust. Francis Collins and Wilk Wilkinson

When renowned physician-scientist Francis Collins was about to have his first conversation with Christian conservative Wilk Wilkinson in early 2022, he admits that he had concerns. "I thought oh boy, this is going to be a tough one". 

Dr. Collins had recently stepped down as Director of NIH— The National Institutes of Health. 

He served under Presidents Obama, Trump, and Biden, and played a leading role in the federal response to the COVID pandemic. Podcaster

 Wilk Wilkinson, who lives in rural Minnesota, was intensely critical of how the government handled COVID.

Today both Francis and Wilk are friends. They lead the Braver Angels' Truth and Trust Project. The goal is to build trust between ordinary Americans and the public health community in the wake of the pandemic. In each Truth and Trust gathering equal numbers of people from each side of the debate about what happened with public health listen carefully and express their views. 

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#413 Braver Angels: Guide Across The Divide. Móni Guzmán

Toxic polarization is "the problem that eats all other problems... It's the sludge at the base of everything else," says our guest Mónica Guzmán. Think how much progress could be made on the great problems of today if politics were much more about discovering nuance than shouting slogans.

This show is our second episode on the work, people, and ideas of the volunteer-led cross-partisan campaign, Braver Angels. In the coming months, we'll report on their initiatives and projects. 

Americans who are pissed off with politics are sometimes called "the exhausted majority." Many are tuning out toxic, divisive rhetoric that aims to settle scores instead of solving what's broken. Our guest, Braver Angels senior fellow Mónica Guzmán, has suggestions about how to be truly curious and have better conversations with those who see things differently.

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#412 Braver Angels at The Republican Convention: Jessie Mannisto and Luke Nathan Phillips

This is our first in a series of new reports on the work, people and projects of Braver Angels— the largest volunteer-led group in the bridging community. The show was recorded a few days after the assassination attempt against Donald Trump. Our guests are Jessie Mannisto and Luke Nathan Phillips, who spent this week in Milwaukee, right outside the Fiserv Forum Arena, site of the Republican National Convention. 

Since its founding after the 2016 election, Braver Angels has brought together many hundreds of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents to debate, discuss, and work together to bridge partisan divides. Jessie is Director of Debates at Braver Angels, and Luke is the Publius Fellow For Public Discourse. 

In this episode we hear about the Braver Angels petition calling on party leaders to detoxify our politics, the mood of Republican delegates and protesters on the streets outside, the differences between media coverage of the event and what its like to be there, as well as responses to Braver Angels and its push back against polarization. 

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#411 Jim & Richard: A Friendship Across Divides

When we first started our podcast in the spring of 2015, Jim and Richard came from different political tribes. They still do. But during more than 400 shows they've deepened their friendship and learned a tremendous amount from each other, and our remarkable guests.

While "How Do We Fix It?" podcast will continue its journey, Jim and Richard's nine years as co-hosts ends with this show. We discuss why the partnership is ending (spoiler alert: it's amicable!) and what they discovered about podcasting, politics, and how to navigate divisions at a time of rigid, painful divides.

"I feel like when we started, we were a couple of voices in the wilderness, searching for more open-minded conversations, looking for people willing to grapple with facts and ideas that don't fit their comfortable world views," says Jim.

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#410 The Case For Ranked Choice Voting. Rob Richie

Supporters of Ranked Choice Voting argue that we need to a big change how we vote. Our “choose-one” elections, they say, deprive voters of meaningful choices, create increasingly toxic campaign cycles, advance candidates who lack broad support and leave voters feeling like our voices are not heard. 

We examine the case for this form of proportional representation. Ranked Choice Voting could boost electoral turnout, reduce polarization, and cut the public cost of running elections. This relatively new reform is now being used in dozens of states, cities and counties. In 2022, Alaska implemented ranked-choice voting for the first time after a referendum revamped its elections.

Our guest, Rob Richie is cofounder and senior analyst at FairVote, makes the case for how it works and why RCV is a viable way to improve electoral politics. Right now, he says, we are in this "incredibly intense winner-take-all environment" in most states. Ranked-choice voting could change the equation.

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#409 Refuge: A Unique Strength of Liberalism: Professor Bryan Garsten

Liberalism is out of fashion. You might say that it's under siege. From the populist right to the progressive left, liberal touchtones of limited government, personal freedom, the rule of law, and a mixed economy have come in for harsh criticism.

Liberalism is assailed by many critics, but it has not failed, argues Yale Political Science Professor Bryan Garsten. "A liberal society is unique in that it offers refuge from the very people it empowers" through "institutions and different political parties. This allows the rest of us to live undisturbed," he says. Supporters argue that this form of liberty most clearly elevates the liberal project. 

In addition to his research and teaching, Garsten has written recent op-eds for The New York Times. His books include “Saving Persuasion: A Defense of Rhetoric and Judgement” and a collection of essays he edited about Rousseau and the Age of Enlightenment. 

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#408 The Collapse of Local News and How to Rebuild Regional Journalism: Anna Brugmann

In much of the country local news has collapsed, threatening civic pride and a sense of community for countless towns and cities. This dramatic change has also deepened America's divides.

As our guest, journalist and public policy researcher Anna Brugmann explains in this episode, "the internet disrupted the local journalism model". Newspaper advertising revenue fell 80% since 2000. Thousands of local and regional publications closed. Most surviving newsrooms faced drastic cutbacks. Coverage of all kinds of local events— from city hall, school board meetings and football games to local businesses and zoning decisions — disappeared.

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#407 Diversity Is Great. DEI Isn't. Amna Khalid and Jeff Snyder

Diversity equity and inclusion: Sounds like a good thing in an incredibly diverse country such as ours, especially when teaching young people at American colleges and universities.

But the DEI industry - or DEI Inc. — has arguably gone off the rails. There’s a big difference between the intentions behind a lot of diversity training and the results. We learn about the crucial difference between training and education, and hear the case against the Stop WOKE Act in Florida.

History professors Amna Khalid and Jeff Snyder share their deep concerns about a growing industry. There is no reliable evidence that diversity, equity and inclusion training sessions at colleges, non-profits, and large corporations actually work. In many places, DEI could be making things worse, imposing an ideological litmus test and encouraging cynicism and dishonesty at places of learning.

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#406 Politics: Majority In The Middle. Shannon Watson

News coverage of Super Tuesday and other party primaries focused mainly on base voters— Democrats and Republicans. But most Americans are actually on the political sidelines or somewhere in the middle. Many have a mix of conservative and liberal views.

This episode is about them. Our guest is Shannon Watson, the Founder and Executive Director of Majority in the Middle. Her Minnesota-based non-profit group works to give voters and elected officials a place to gather outside the extremes. "We try to elevate the people who are demonstrating the behavior we want to see", Shannon tells us. 

"When it's only the rabble rousers who get the coverage then there is an incentive to be one of them." Majority in the Middle also promotes structural changes in governing that will remove barriers to cooperation across the political aisle. 

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#405 Changing Journalism: Boosting Trust in the News Media. Joy Mayer

Only four-in-ten Americans say they have a lot of trust in the news media. That's a big problem for our democracy, especially in this volatile presidential election year. While journalists are supposed to tell the truth and get the story right, just 35% of right-of-center voters have some trust in what they see on the news.

Democrats and independents are much more likely to trust journalists, but Americans of almost all shades of opinion are skeptical of the journalists, not only questioning the quality of their work but the intentions behind it.

Our guest is Joy Mayer, Director of the non-profit group, Trusting News, which has partnered with many local newsrooms around the country to help journalists earn consumers' trust.

While many reporters, writers and editors are reluctant to discuss their politics, most journalists have liberal or progressive views. "I think it's something we need to talk about more openly," Joy tells us.

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#404 Ideas For Everyone: The Virtues of a Liberal Education. Roosevelt Montás

What is the point of a good education? Do we need it to learn a narrow set of skills ro help us get ahead in the workplace, or should knowledge and learning to be used over a lifetime to acquire wisdom that enables us to think more deeply about our place in the world?

This question has profound resonance at a time of angry divides over American politics and moral confusion at elite American universities. The President of Harvard, Claudine Gay, resigned after months of campus unrest and controversy. In December, Gay and two other university presidents faced widespread criticism for their testimony at Congressional hearings about antisemitism on their campuses.

In this episode, we hear from a university educator who makes the case for liberal education that gives students the tools needed to have a deeper sense of purpose. Roosevelt Montás is the author of "Rescuing Socrates: How The Great Books Changed My Life And Why They Matter For a New Generation".

He believes that the ideas and writings of Plato, Socrates, Shakespeare, Ghandi and many others aren't just for a few privileged students. They're for everybody, and that encountering these thinkers as a poor immigrant teenager changed his life.

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#403 What Could Go Right? 2024 Predictions Show

From the economy and prospects for a Biden vs Trump rematch to the future for global energy and artificial intelligence, Richard and Jim make their forecasts for 2024. 

And we re-visit our predictions from exactly a year ago and report on precisely how we did. "It's sort of like weather forecasters and opinion pollsters going back and owning up to their mistakes," says Richard. "I mean, who often do we see that!"

Once again, Meigs and Davies make their best guesses about what's to come this year. Will Donald Trump maintain his slim lead in the polls over President Biden? Is there a much higher risk than most experts expect for energy supplies during the winter months? How big are the chances for a wider war in the Middle East?

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#402 How to Escape The Identity Trap - Yascha Mounk (part two)

We continue our discussion with Yascha Mounk, one of the leading public intellectuals of our time. The subject is a hugely influential ideology that attempts to put racial, sexual and gender identity at the center of our social, cultural and political life. The "identity synthesis", Mounk argues, denies that members of different groups can truly understand one another and this stifles public discourse.

In this podcast episode we learn why an obsession with identity undermines social justice, fuels culture wars, and boosts hateful hardliners on the right and left— from Donald Trump to protesters who support Hamas and its murderous attacks on Israeli civilians. We also hear how to politely but firmly push back against those who have become ensnared in "The Identity Trap," the name of Yascha Mounk's new book.

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#401 The Origins of Today's Identity Politics - Yascha Mounk (part one)

Having skewered right-wing populism and its demagogues in his two previous best-selling books, politics professor, writer, and podcaster Yasha Mounk turns now to the threat posed to liberalism from those progressives who champion "woke" identity politics. We discuss his latest, "The Identity Trap: A Story of Ideas and Power In Our Time."

This episode— the first of two with Yasha Mounk — looks at the complex roots of a highly influential ideology based on personal identity— specifically race, gender and sexual orientation. These are said to determine a person's power, role in society, and how they see themselves. Mounk explains how the identity synthesis, which has become widely accepted in many universities, nonprofits and large corporations, had its origins in several intellectual traditions, including post-colonialism, postmodernism and critical race theory.

Our interview mentions ideas and concepts raised by Michel Foucault, Derrick Bell, Kimberlé Krenshaw, Edward Said, Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak, and others. We learn how these thinkers sharply criticized modern liberalism and the civil rights movement of the Sixties and beyond.

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#400 Imaging a Better Future. How Doomers Prevent Progress. James Pethokoukis

Yes, it's our 400th episode. But instead of looking back over the past eight-and-a-half years of our podcasts, we consider the future: How collective optimism or pessimism can have a huge impact on the economy, risk taking, and the acceptance of new technologies that spark growth and innovation.

Our guest is scholar and journalist James Pethokoukis of the American Enterprise Institute, author of "The Conservative Futurist: How To Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised."

In this episode he argues that in the decades after World War Two and during the space race, America was the world's dream factory. TV and movies helped to turn imagination into reality, from curing polio to landing on the Moon to creating the internet. In those years we were confident that more wonders lay just over the horizon: clean and infinite energy, a cure for cancer, computers and robots as humanity’s great helpers. 

But as we moved into the late 20th century, we grew cautious, even cynical, about what the future held and our ability to shape it. James Pethokoukis says that this year— 2023— marks the 50th anniversary of the start of the Great Downshift in technological progress and economic growth, followed by decades of economic stagnation, downsized dreams, and a popular culture fixated on catastrophe.

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#399 Polarization Series: Bridging Divides at Braver Angels. Erica Manuel and Manu Meel

Affective polarization in America – the gap between voters' positive feelings about their own political party or "side" and negative feelings toward the opposing party – has sharply increased during the past two decades.

We speak with two leaders in local government and a nationwide students group about effective ways to bridge divides. 

Erica Manuel is CEO and Executive Director at the Institute for Local Government in Roseville, California. She has over 20 years of experience helping public, private and nonprofit organizations implement innovative policies to provide strong leadership, advance climate resilience, support economic development, engage communities, and drive positive change.

Manu Meel is CEO of BridgeUSA, a student-led nonprofit organization that creates spaces at colleges and high schools for open discussion among students about political issues. BridgeUSA began in 2016 at the universities of Notre Dame, CU-Boulder and UC Berkeley in response to growing polarization on campus.  

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