"The Covid-19 pandemic reveals that far from living in an age of incessant technological change, we have been neglecting innovation in exactly the areas where we most need it." So writes our podcast guest, best-selling author Matt Ridley.

We discuss the urgent concept raised in his latest book, "How Innovation Works, And Why It Flourishes in Freedom."

As Viscount Ridley, Matt was elected to the UK House of Lords in 2013. His TED Talk, "When Ideas Have Sex" has been viewed more than two million times. His books, including, "The Rational Optimist", have sold more than one million copies.

Matt Ridley argues that we need to change the way we think about innovation, to see it as a bottom-up, incremental process, rather than a top-down event that develops according to plan. He also explains the fundamental difference between innovation and invention.

"Trial and error is the secret sauce of innovation," Matt tells us. "Again and again and again if you talk to great innovators they stress the importance of trial and error." We also look at how to improve public policy to allow innovation to flourish.